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	<title>Comments on: Extreme Moderates</title>
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	<link>http://monotonous.org/2008/12/29/extreme-moderates/</link>
	<description>Eitan's Pitch</description>
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		<title>By: Eitan</title>
		<link>http://monotonous.org/2008/12/29/extreme-moderates/comment-page-1/#comment-12434</link>
		<dc:creator>Eitan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:01:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monotonous.org/?p=166#comment-12434</guid>
		<description>Looks like Google Video is down.
Here is the youtube equivalent:
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=BC3D8B570BC33578</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like Google Video is down.<br />
Here is the youtube equivalent:<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=BC3D8B570BC33578" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=BC3D8B570BC33578</a></p>
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		<title>By: Eitan</title>
		<link>http://monotonous.org/2008/12/29/extreme-moderates/comment-page-1/#comment-12433</link>
		<dc:creator>Eitan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 21:57:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monotonous.org/?p=166#comment-12433</guid>
		<description>There is always the famous Finkelstein - Dershowitz debate. I don&#039;t usually approve of Finkelstein&#039;s debating style, but this is a classic.

He rips A Case For Israel apart.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1899267555870962994</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is always the famous Finkelstein &#8211; Dershowitz debate. I don&#8217;t usually approve of Finkelstein&#8217;s debating style, but this is a classic.</p>
<p>He rips A Case For Israel apart.<br />
<a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1899267555870962994" rel="nofollow">http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1899267555870962994</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://monotonous.org/2008/12/29/extreme-moderates/comment-page-1/#comment-12430</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monotonous.org/?p=166#comment-12430</guid>
		<description>M. Bolton,
I love to read books by people I disagree, because they&#039;re my only way of (in)validating my own views.

I&#039;ve heard several atrocious comments attributed to Chomsky, but I don&#039;t think its fair to judge him without actually reading his writings. I&#039;ll happily read &quot;Fateful Triangle.&quot;

1. Is &quot;international laws&quot; a joke phrase that you spit out when confronted and _only_ when its convenient? Israel accepted the UN&#039;s two-state solution and the Palestinians didn&#039;t- they actually went so far as to promise the world that the Jews would be driven into the sea along with the UN&#039;s proposal.

2. &quot;Weapons at their disposal?&quot; Does that also apply to Al Queda on 9/11 or is that too close to home?

3. Antisemitism and antizionism are usually two separate things. However, when you judge Palestinians and Israelis by different standards, then the distinction is blurred.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>M. Bolton,<br />
I love to read books by people I disagree, because they&#8217;re my only way of (in)validating my own views.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard several atrocious comments attributed to Chomsky, but I don&#8217;t think its fair to judge him without actually reading his writings. I&#8217;ll happily read &#8220;Fateful Triangle.&#8221;</p>
<p>1. Is &#8220;international laws&#8221; a joke phrase that you spit out when confronted and _only_ when its convenient? Israel accepted the UN&#8217;s two-state solution and the Palestinians didn&#8217;t- they actually went so far as to promise the world that the Jews would be driven into the sea along with the UN&#8217;s proposal.</p>
<p>2. &#8220;Weapons at their disposal?&#8221; Does that also apply to Al Queda on 9/11 or is that too close to home?</p>
<p>3. Antisemitism and antizionism are usually two separate things. However, when you judge Palestinians and Israelis by different standards, then the distinction is blurred.</p>
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		<title>By: M. Bolton</title>
		<link>http://monotonous.org/2008/12/29/extreme-moderates/comment-page-1/#comment-12426</link>
		<dc:creator>M. Bolton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monotonous.org/?p=166#comment-12426</guid>
		<description>Anonymous,

1) I&#039;m capable of distinguishing between Israelis and Palestinians. Although both peoples are predominantly semitic, the former have invaded and are occupying territory belonging to the latter by international law.

2) I don&#039;t think Palestinians are necessarily cute or, uh, furry (?). They&#039;re fighting back with the limited means at their disposal.

3) Your reply equates Israel with Jews. This is bound to make a lot of Jews (and Israelis) unhappy. You can be excused for that, as it&#039;s part of Israel&#039;s policy to confuse the two, and it&#039;s been a very successful policy. However, it&#039;s a policy that also fuels resentment towards innocent Jews worldwide.

4) I&#039;ll read &quot;The Case for Israel&quot; if you read &quot;Fateful Triangle: The United States, Israel, and the Palestinians&quot; by Noam Chomsky. I still feel like you&#039;re getting the better part of the deal, though ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonymous,</p>
<p>1) I&#8217;m capable of distinguishing between Israelis and Palestinians. Although both peoples are predominantly semitic, the former have invaded and are occupying territory belonging to the latter by international law.</p>
<p>2) I don&#8217;t think Palestinians are necessarily cute or, uh, furry (?). They&#8217;re fighting back with the limited means at their disposal.</p>
<p>3) Your reply equates Israel with Jews. This is bound to make a lot of Jews (and Israelis) unhappy. You can be excused for that, as it&#8217;s part of Israel&#8217;s policy to confuse the two, and it&#8217;s been a very successful policy. However, it&#8217;s a policy that also fuels resentment towards innocent Jews worldwide.</p>
<p>4) I&#8217;ll read &#8220;The Case for Israel&#8221; if you read &#8220;Fateful Triangle: The United States, Israel, and the Palestinians&#8221; by Noam Chomsky. I still feel like you&#8217;re getting the better part of the deal, though <img src='http://monotonous.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://monotonous.org/2008/12/29/extreme-moderates/comment-page-1/#comment-12415</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 06:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monotonous.org/?p=166#comment-12415</guid>
		<description>M. Bolton,
You&#039;re sadly naive.

At the Camp David Summit, the Palestinian people were offered over 90% of the West Bank and Arafat refused.

You need to stop viewing all Jews as oppressors and all Palestinians as cuddly and innocent fur balls. Both sides have dirt on their hand, but if you&#039;re incapable of distinguishing between the two then you&#039;re simply an uneducated fool.

Israel&#039;s air force calls up buildings and warns civilians to leave before they bomb them. The Palestinian people have chosen to turn to terrorism and do not distinguish between children and soldiers.

Your claim that Israel may &quot;eradicate the Palestinians completely&quot; is laughable, as much as the claim that United States may suddenly decide to enslave all Mexicans.

Please, stop trying to spread ignorance and turn PR against Israel when you clearly don&#039;t know the facts. If you&#039;d like to have an intelligent conversation, I suggest you read the book &quot;The Case for Israel&quot; by the Harvard professor Alan Dershowitz. It&#039;s always more fun to be uninformed, but you have no right to spread misinformation about Israeli policies that you probably only heard secondhand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>M. Bolton,<br />
You&#8217;re sadly naive.</p>
<p>At the Camp David Summit, the Palestinian people were offered over 90% of the West Bank and Arafat refused.</p>
<p>You need to stop viewing all Jews as oppressors and all Palestinians as cuddly and innocent fur balls. Both sides have dirt on their hand, but if you&#8217;re incapable of distinguishing between the two then you&#8217;re simply an uneducated fool.</p>
<p>Israel&#8217;s air force calls up buildings and warns civilians to leave before they bomb them. The Palestinian people have chosen to turn to terrorism and do not distinguish between children and soldiers.</p>
<p>Your claim that Israel may &#8220;eradicate the Palestinians completely&#8221; is laughable, as much as the claim that United States may suddenly decide to enslave all Mexicans.</p>
<p>Please, stop trying to spread ignorance and turn PR against Israel when you clearly don&#8217;t know the facts. If you&#8217;d like to have an intelligent conversation, I suggest you read the book &#8220;The Case for Israel&#8221; by the Harvard professor Alan Dershowitz. It&#8217;s always more fun to be uninformed, but you have no right to spread misinformation about Israeli policies that you probably only heard secondhand.</p>
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		<title>By: M. Bolton</title>
		<link>http://monotonous.org/2008/12/29/extreme-moderates/comment-page-1/#comment-12357</link>
		<dc:creator>M. Bolton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 00:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monotonous.org/?p=166#comment-12357</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your brave post.

The first step towards the solution to this problem is entirely up to Israel. Give back the unlawfully occupied land, go back to the 1967 borders and open up negotiations. The Palestinian authorities would have to guarantee Israeli citizens&#039; safety in return. The Palestinians have repeatedly stated they&#039;d accept such a solution, and it&#039;s a big concession on their side.

Israel has shut out this option and gone for a strategy of slowly encircling and exterminating the Palestinian people, turning Gaza into a ghetto without food, water and basic services. This situation breeds extremism, which is part of Israel&#039;s strategy of legitimizing their indiscriminate attacks.

Some of the other comments here make me pessimistic about a solution, though. Israelis, with the world&#039;s 5th largest military force, may end up convincing themselves they have to eradicate the Palestinians completely, sealing their own fate as the western world&#039;s power and ability to protect them fades.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your brave post.</p>
<p>The first step towards the solution to this problem is entirely up to Israel. Give back the unlawfully occupied land, go back to the 1967 borders and open up negotiations. The Palestinian authorities would have to guarantee Israeli citizens&#8217; safety in return. The Palestinians have repeatedly stated they&#8217;d accept such a solution, and it&#8217;s a big concession on their side.</p>
<p>Israel has shut out this option and gone for a strategy of slowly encircling and exterminating the Palestinian people, turning Gaza into a ghetto without food, water and basic services. This situation breeds extremism, which is part of Israel&#8217;s strategy of legitimizing their indiscriminate attacks.</p>
<p>Some of the other comments here make me pessimistic about a solution, though. Israelis, with the world&#8217;s 5th largest military force, may end up convincing themselves they have to eradicate the Palestinians completely, sealing their own fate as the western world&#8217;s power and ability to protect them fades.</p>
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		<title>By: Gadi</title>
		<link>http://monotonous.org/2008/12/29/extreme-moderates/comment-page-1/#comment-12269</link>
		<dc:creator>Gadi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:26:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monotonous.org/?p=166#comment-12269</guid>
		<description>I just love this righteous talk.

Every one saying Israel is using disproportional force. Many shout &quot;Genocide&quot;, &quot;Natzis&quot;.

What is a proportional solution in your opinion?
6500+ rockets have been launched into Israel in the past 8 years.
Should Israel be proportional and fire back 6,500 missiles on civilians? I have the feeling such a response would be truly grave for the Palestinians..

IDF surely has much more powerful bombs, capable pf creating &quot;Genocide&quot;. Yet we send our best men to sweep the streets of Gaza instead, risking their lives to find another booby-trapped school, another house filled with Grad rockets. This, I believe, IS proportionate.

And speaking of a diplomatic solution - it worked very well with Hezbollah. They all let down their weapons and stopped stocking Kantyusha missiles. Why, they even stopped calling for the destruction of Israel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just love this righteous talk.</p>
<p>Every one saying Israel is using disproportional force. Many shout &#8220;Genocide&#8221;, &#8220;Natzis&#8221;.</p>
<p>What is a proportional solution in your opinion?<br />
6500+ rockets have been launched into Israel in the past 8 years.<br />
Should Israel be proportional and fire back 6,500 missiles on civilians? I have the feeling such a response would be truly grave for the Palestinians..</p>
<p>IDF surely has much more powerful bombs, capable pf creating &#8220;Genocide&#8221;. Yet we send our best men to sweep the streets of Gaza instead, risking their lives to find another booby-trapped school, another house filled with Grad rockets. This, I believe, IS proportionate.</p>
<p>And speaking of a diplomatic solution &#8211; it worked very well with Hezbollah. They all let down their weapons and stopped stocking Kantyusha missiles. Why, they even stopped calling for the destruction of Israel.</p>
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		<title>By: Fabrice Colin</title>
		<link>http://monotonous.org/2008/12/29/extreme-moderates/comment-page-1/#comment-12105</link>
		<dc:creator>Fabrice Colin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:40:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monotonous.org/?p=166#comment-12105</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your post. I find Israel&#039;s reaction in this completely disproportionate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your post. I find Israel&#8217;s reaction in this completely disproportionate.</p>
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		<title>By: Dumarest</title>
		<link>http://monotonous.org/2008/12/29/extreme-moderates/comment-page-1/#comment-12002</link>
		<dc:creator>Dumarest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 13:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monotonous.org/?p=166#comment-12002</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s an entirely different issue (i.e., than considering civilian victims war crimes altogether), and I&#039;m myself uncertain about it: killing children to save your children sounds awful however you turn it around. I guess that&#039;s just inevitable, at least until dreams of martyrdom to free all of Palestine and force jews to leave will fade away. Doesn&#039;t seem likely at the moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s an entirely different issue (i.e., than considering civilian victims war crimes altogether), and I&#8217;m myself uncertain about it: killing children to save your children sounds awful however you turn it around. I guess that&#8217;s just inevitable, at least until dreams of martyrdom to free all of Palestine and force jews to leave will fade away. Doesn&#8217;t seem likely at the moment.</p>
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		<title>By: Eitan</title>
		<link>http://monotonous.org/2008/12/29/extreme-moderates/comment-page-1/#comment-11982</link>
		<dc:creator>Eitan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 23:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monotonous.org/?p=166#comment-11982</guid>
		<description>@Dumarest: With intention or without intention, the IDF managed to kill more children in the last 5 days than Hammas could ever hope to.
The IDF, and Israeli public opinion, believe that those tragic consequences are acceptable. I beg to differ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dumarest: With intention or without intention, the IDF managed to kill more children in the last 5 days than Hammas could ever hope to.<br />
The IDF, and Israeli public opinion, believe that those tragic consequences are acceptable. I beg to differ.</p>
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